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  • #3713
    giftiggiftig
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 14

    Hey all,
    I was just thinking about this today.

    Descent 1 and 2 are amazing. And I mean, incredibly amazing. Like, I can go back and replay them at least every few months if I want and never get tired, and I’m not a huge fan of shooters.

    But for some reason, I’ve only ever played ~3 hours into Descent 3. I just simply cannot get into it. I’ve tried several times.

    I’ve played all 3 Descent games in the last few days since the Kickstarter finished (I was there at the finish line, I was commenting as Daniel Theyellowdart). And even though I’ve gotten farther in Descent 3 this time than ever before, I just cannot get over a few things: aiming is so friggin’ difficult. Bots are small, aiming is clicky (can’t get that perfect shot, ever). And the overall feel of the game is just….different.

    This might stem from my youth when I bought Descent 3 fresh off the shelves its first week out, took it home, marveled at its beautiful packaging and CD, installed it and immediately was shut down with “Descent 3 is not a valid win32 application.”

    Anyway, just wanted to start a discussion about Descent 3 and its two predecessors and where might the magic have died.

    Giftig

    Life’s tough. It’s tougher if you’re stupid. ~John Wayne

    #3719
    LotharBot
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 1
    Replies: 133

    My impression of D3 is that it was trying too hard to be “bigger” in terms of having huge outdoor areas and such, and the net result was that they had to make everything tougher and faster (including your weapons) and it sort of got away from the smooth D1/D2 feel where everything just fit together.

    #3720
    d3jaked3jake
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 118

    This is the most succinct explanation of the change between D1/2 and D3… Kudos!

    #3726
    Pyro-GXPyro-GX
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 24

    Descent 3 has long been considered the most polarizing of the Descent series;
    It tried to be both new and fresh while maintaining the same feel of the originals, but it didn’t quite succeed.

    It also tried to have a grand cinematic story going on in the background, there again, it only half-succeeded

    I really liked Descent 3, but I embrace it as a different game to it’s predecessors

    Though one thing I hated about it: NO PYRO-GX! 🙁

    #3728
    giftiggiftig
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 14

    Descent 3 has long been considered the most polarizing of the Descent series;
    It tried to be both new and fresh while maintaining the same feel of the originals, but it didn’t quite succeed.

    It also tried to have a grand cinematic story going on in the background, there again, it only half-succeeded

    I really liked Descent 3, but I embrace it as a different game to it’s predecessors

    Though one thing I hated about it: NO PYRO-GX! :(

    Pyro-gx?

    Life’s tough. It’s tougher if you’re stupid. ~John Wayne

    #3736
    SiriusSirius
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 9
    Replies: 406

    The classic ship from Descent and Descent 2. In D3, they had a similar-but-not-the-same ship, the Pyro-GL, instead.

    #3741
    1up1up
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 82

    I think it was very difficult for Outrage to make something fantastic like D1 and D2 even better to offer with D3 a state of the art game in 1998/1999. Advanced graphics, many more options regarding environment, weapons and ship control. For me it was the sheer speed increase of the gameplay in small multiplayer levels like Skybox or The Core for example, the challenge to master the Massdriver another example. What was missing in D3 during the SP campaign was the threatening claustrophobic feeling of beserk going robots making scary sounds together with a form of arcade gaming feel. In D3 everything looked a little too bright and too overcolored. Story wise D3 moved away from the dreary bot cleaner character to some sort of an explorer.

    I really loved D1 and D2 (especially singleplayer and the genre was still very Young and fascinating) but D3 was for me the better game considering multiplayer.

    #3747
    Obi-Wan KenobiObi-Wan Kenobi
    Participant
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 25

    Hmm I too saw D1 & D2 as the utmost best parts, they really had competition, the challenge was well spread out the the game all because they were very well balanced, even being D1 is probably the best of the two, no need for burners if you can just Tri-Chord 🙂

    With D3 this was something else a new try, they wanted to make D3 the new standard , bigger maps weapons and such just like Lotharbot explained, but somehow that never got to it’s place also the controls were way too over sensed, I could never get used to D3’s crappy controls over the smoothed out ones from D1 & D2.

    So I put D3 to a different purpose, since it supported 3dfx Glide API 3.54b, I used D3 to beta test my 3dfx Voodoo5 5000 & 6000 Engineering Samples for the x-3dfx, Voodooalert & 3dfxzone.it communities, with community drivers from x-3dfx & 3dfxzone.it’s AmigaMerlin & SFFT.

    Here my 3dfx Voodoo5 6000 AGP 128MB Rev.A 3700 Engineering Sample in my test setup:

    AMD AthlonXP 2700+ Thoroughbred-B @ 2167Mhz
    3x 512MB PC-2700 CL2 @ DDR-333Mhz
    EPoX EP-8K3A+ Ver 1.1 With VIA Apollo KT333 Chipset
    3dfx Voodoo5 6000 AGP 128MB Rev.A 3700
    Intel Pro 100S Server Ethernet Adapter
    ASUS 5 Port USB 2.0 PCI Card
    Creative Labs Sound Blaster Live! 5.1
    EIZO FlexScan T662-T 20″CRT 1600 x 1200 x32 @ 85 Herz
    Enermax Modu 520+ 525Watt PSU
    AddTronics 6896A Entry Level Server Tower

    Windows 2000 Professional USA + Service Pack 4
    AmigaMerlin 3.1 R11

    Here the system info tab in the 3dfx Voodoo5 6000 driver Control panel:
    [urlhttp://www.3dfx.ch/gallery/d/28062-1/V6K+sys+info+a.jpg=][/url]

    Here the SLI & FSAA x8 setting tab in the 3dfx Voodoo5 6000 driver Control panel:

    Single Chip disabled SLI, Fastest performance is Quad SLI without FSAA, the FSAA settings are always done when Quad SLI is enabled

    Here some pics of D3 on the Voodoo5 6000:

    1600 x 1200 FSAA disabled, max ingame settings:

    Here the 3dfx Voodoo5 5000 PCI 32MB Rev.A1 0900 Engineering Sample I tested with D3:

    Here the system:

    AthlonXP 2700+
    EPoX EP-8K3A+
    3x 512MB PC3200 CL2 Kingston Hyper X @ PC2700
    3dfx Voodoo5 5000 PCI 32MB Rev.A1 0900 with PC Bios 1.00b
    Creative SB Audigy 2 Platinum with the latest Win2K/XP drivers.
    Intel Pro 1000 MT Server Ethernet Adapter
    ASUS 5 Port USB 2.0 PCI Card
    EIZO FlexScan T662-T 20″CRT 1600 x 1200 x32 @ 85 Herz
    Enermax Modu 520+ 525Watt PSU
    Lian Li PC-65 + Window Kit.

    SFFT 1.5 as drivers
    latest WHQL 3dfx Tools for Win2K/XP
    Windows 2000 Professional USA + Service Pack 4 + Roll Up 1 for Service Pack 4
    Direct9.0c August 2007.

    Here the pics, some even show 3dfx Motion Blur at play, yes D3 supported the 3dfx T-Buffer which only their Voodoo5 line of cards had.

    1024 x 768 x32 + Super Sampled Rotated Grid FSAA x4, max ingame settings:

    This picture I was able to capture 3dfx Motion Blur in action 🙂

    Bottom line, D3’s Fusion engine was made for the 3dfx Glide API, Direct3D & OpenGL were just added for extra API support, only the image quality those API’s gave were horrid compared to 3dfx Glide, which was seamless and had the best image quality and performance, the same thing goes for Freespace 2 actually.

    But gameplay wise, D1 & D2 hands down, but then again this maybe be better or worse per different player I met people that loved D3 and I met people that hated it, I love D3’s Single Player Campaign even that the controls were somewhat over sensed for me, but multiplayer, nah not my thing, but then again for an other Multiplayer was it all, it just differs per player 🙂

    So mainly I used D3 as a testing tool for my 3dfx Voodoo5 Engineering & Production cards, to test 3dfx community drivers for stability, image quality and performance improvements 🙂

    Holder Of The World’s Largest Descent / Freespace Collection:
    https://playoverload.com/forums/topic/hello-there-here-a-descent-collectors-intro-8/

    #6459
    Super88
    Participant
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 18

    But for some reason, I’ve only ever played ~3 hours into Descent 3. I just simply cannot get into it. I’ve tried several times.

    The main problem with D3 was too much space. Originally Descent’s movement, weapons and combat were designed for enclosed spaces. A small level like minerva is actually big because in descent you can move in 3D. Descent 3 tries to make the space huge and that has a negative impact on gameplay. They tried to compensate for their big spaces with a sped up ship and weapons and it throws the feel of the game off.

    Descent was really about close quarters combat and Descent 3 breaks that. The enemy sizes and weapons were tailored to enclosed spaces in previous descents and this is broken in descent 3 so everything is painfully boring to a large extent because the game feel is thrown off.

    Lastly, the audio/visuals of Descent 3 were really offputting. The new engine they tried to go for complex geometry except descent really doesn’t need it. Being able to fly in 3D you actually want to purposely limit the space because it becomes too easy to dodge/run around. You don’t have the feeling like you are backed into a corner…. so they changed the enemies characteristics and properties to deal with large spaces (faster weapons, etc) and that breaks the game feel fundamentally.

    Descent 1/2 had stumbled upon ideal ratios for weapons for enclosed spaces pretty much and was pretty much perfected in d2.

    #6501
    DarkhorseDarkhorse
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 127

    The relationship with space was different. Thematically I felt it was a vast improvement – places in D3 were less abstract. The mission objectives were a nice change too.

    Was definitely missing the puzzles of D2 though. I don’t think those were necessarily great; many were just complex without being intuitive in any way. But at least they gave you something to think about, compared with D3 where they were very few and far between.

    Overload is bringing back the gameplay of D1/2 where the difficulty is in avoiding fire, not hitting bouncy robots that can dodge anything. I’m hoping it has access to the freeform objectives of D3 though, because the D1/2 system was a real straightjacket for level design.

    #6509
    giftiggiftig
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 14

    Based on what they’ve said, I’m thinking they’re going with the straitjacket.

    Life’s tough. It’s tougher if you’re stupid. ~John Wayne

    #6538
    d3jaked3jake
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 118

    It should be noted that some parts of the D3 campaign had to be cut short due to timeline/budgetary concerns.

    The final boss was supposed to spew babies and was supposed to be killed by a falling chunk of rock.

    #6555
    MobiusMobius
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 9
    Replies: 35

    FYI: Adding Bubbalou’s super-hi-poly Pyro-GX to replace the Pyro-GL model in D3 took about 1 minute.

    D3 was the first game I ever pre-ordered. And I spent a whopping $6,800 on a new PC to play it on. Including 2x 17″ 80Hz Viewsonic professional CRTs, a Matrox G400 (The first of the dualhead cards), built on a Pentium II 500. That’s $10,000 in today’s money. I was not disappointed.

    Personally, I liked D3 far more than D1 and D2 – so I am weird that way. I started with the D1 Demo in 1995 when I got a new PC. I was addicted to Descent immediately, and I even had a 3D Pro to play it with. But D3 was it for me: I loved the way the ships moved, and the weapons fired. I even finished the SP, and then finished Mercenary as well.

    The online gameplay was absolutely awesome. I have never had so much fun online, before or since. Audio taunts had me in stitches. Triple Fusion insta-kills (and insta-deaths!), Megas, Smarts, Frags (in Veins! Yeah baby!), MASS-FRIKING-DRIVER! OMG – I sucked with that thing so bad in CS (But it worked great in P2P) due to lag – but the sound effects, the zoom, the firing – and the results – I have never used a more perfect weapon – EVAH! 🙂

    Napalm rockets (oh – plus Invisible Napalm!) were utterly brilliant. They were a 1-shot kill with a direct hit, on even a Magnum-AHT IIRC. They were terrific. I loved the sound they made. The burning sounds. The hit sound. All of it. Wicked.

    Fusion – aaah – I would love to write a post on nothing BUT Fusion in D3. Far out: awesome. Especially for a lagger like me. How do I love thee? Let me count the ways! Triple Fusion scared the hell out of people. Quickfire confused people. Fully charged wasted people. At only 7 energy per shot, a Pyro-GL dealing bi-Fusion was a very dangerous ship indeed. And Skippy-ass Phoenii – with that really wide spread of bi-Fusion – groovy.

    Mortars – I almost forgot about mortars. Dear Sweet Baby Dravis; Mortars were stunning. Levels with lots of mortars were hysterical, and god-help you if you didn’t know how to sling them.

    Megas. Do you all remember the Mega-bounce? Perhaps you had to be laggy, like me, to experience it. You’d crash head on into a Mega, and be smashed across a room before you got the death packet from the server. 🙂 The remote-almost-implosion sound of a Mega used to strike fear into the hearts of those in CQC.

    Smart missiles – were really no good against anyone with half a bag of skills – but they definitely were great for clearing a room, if there was goo you wanted.

    Black Sharks remain, to this day, one of my favourite all time missiles. They’d just as easily suck you in, if used incorrectly – and in Monsterball they were so good that it was Black Sharks which made me adopt the play mode – and then learn to love it – as it taught me to use the MD.

    I think pretty much the only weapon not perfect online was the Omega Cannon, and only because I seem to recall that it was framerate dependent. So if you wielded it with 100 FPS, it pretty much insta-killed your victim. As a weapon idea though, Omega was brilliant.

    For Me, D3 felt more of a crystalisation of thoughts as a result of D1 and D2. And with a clean sheet of paper, I believe they did the best job anyone has ever done – up until Overload. And I can already recognise greatness in Overload’s Teaser. I am really going to have a tough time waiting for the Multiplayer feature.

    For me, Descent 3 was always an adventure online. I never experienced that when I tried to play D2 online, and it seemed to me D3 was bigger, bolder, faster – and better. My very best memories of PC gaming are from 16-player matches in Burning Indika 3. With 16 pilots in such a small space, if you could survive for longer than 20 or 30 seconds, you were doing great. It was totally frenetic, completely out of control, with weapons fire coming from all directions at once. I don’t know what my heart rate was during those matches – but it must have been north of 130bpm.

    If Revival can capture even half of what made D3 awesome online, we are in for a real treat when PvP arrives. But I am hoping for far more than that. I think the guys can take Overload into a whole new level of online greatness.

    When D3 was starting to get a bit tired, the game I imagined D4 would be, is exactly and precisely as the Teaser currently is. The look. The feel. The sounds. If they made some levels, and released PvP with the game as it is right now, I’d almost be totally satisfied with it.

    Triplehead is mindblowing in the Teaser, even with the low framerate. And once they get TrackIR working, I will pretty much be in heaven.

    Wow – I still almost can’t believe the game is real.

    #6585
    giftiggiftig
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 14

    The amount of happiness spewing from your post is nearly enough to get me to grind through D3 just to try to feel the same.

    Tell me, friend, is there any way to get Descent 3 to ride more smoothly? And I don’t mean frames. I mean controls. Aiming is frustratingly difficult. I find myself positioning up down strafe left or right rather than turning because all turns come down to single clicks that are just…too big. There’s no smoothness to it. It’s hard to explain. But impossibly frustrating.

    Life’s tough. It’s tougher if you’re stupid. ~John Wayne

    #6603
    Sergeant ThorneSergeant Thorne
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 12
    Replies: 138

    Thanks for sharing, Mobius. D3 was that for me too. I recognized no limitations in playing D3 multiplayer. The bitter-sweet of it was that as I got better the crowd got thinner, as D3 multiplayer kinda reached the end of its life-cycle.

    The black shark, though, is where I draw the line–it was an awesome missile concept in a lot of ways, but the fact that someone could let one fly at any time and shut everything down without warning or recourse was a negative, I think. Kind of like the Mega in D:U, incidentally. Fun for the person firing, but folks on the receiving end could only live in fear or frustration. The only way to defend was to assume everyone was carrying one and lining up for a shot, and either stay out of sight or stick to them like a burr. That kind of paranoia doesn’t lend itself to fun game-play. 😛

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