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This topic contains 26 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by TwoCables TwoCables 07 May 2016 @ 5:03pm.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 27 total)
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  • #7218

    natefp
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 4

    Are there plans to implement an automap in Overload? Is easy to get lost and disoriented in the tunnels while getting familiar with a level. If so, will it pause a single player game when activated? I like the way the one in d2x-xl looks.

    #7219
    TwoCables
    TwoCables
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 118
    Replies: 1474

    Yeah, Overload will have an automap. I don’t know whether it will pause the game, but I’m assuming it will because I got the impression that Luke didn’t like how the game doesn’t pause in Sublevel Zero.

    Prepare for Overload…

    #7232

    Mike Kulas
    Overload Team
    Topics: 24
    Replies: 186

    Yes, TwoCables is correct. There will be an automap and we’re uncertain how it will function. We _hope_ (don’t quote me!) to have it in the first demo drop.

    My thinking at the moment is that it should pause gameplay unless it is visible without disrupting the game view. This could be done with multiple monitors, but without that, I’m not sure it’s worth trying for.

    #7269

    tueidj
    Participant
    Topics: 1
    Replies: 64

    A real-time map on a separate monitor would be awesome. I actually tried to add that to D1, but using a tablet for it – gameplay happens on the big screen while my co-pilot navigates.

    #7274

    hypersonic
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 220

    As an alternative to being on a separate monitor, I think being in a window off in a corner so you can play while the map is on would work. With single large high-res displays I think it would be practical.

    Click on the map to focus then manipulate the range and orientation of the camera to your ship, then unfocus from the map and have it follow your ship as you play with that orientation and range. As long as it’s not a wireframe model as in Descent where you don’t know what’s in front of what, or what lines go with other lines to create a surface (as is the case in some very complex maps.) Having an option to show plain-colored walls or textured walls in the map would be cool.

    In VR mode you could say look down at your legs to see the map while flying, for example.

    #7275

    tueidj
    Participant
    Topics: 1
    Replies: 64

    As long as it’s not a wireframe model as in Descent where you don’t know what’s in front of what, or what lines go with other lines to create a surface (as is the case in some very complex maps.)

    Lines on the boundaries of front-facing surfaces were white, lines on the boundaries of back-facing surfaces were a slightly darker shade of white. 😛
    I think the spheres (keys, players, hostages) being rendered on top of all lines regardless of their location was a bug that either nobody caught or they didn’t have time to fix.

    #7277

    hypersonic
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 220

    Yea I knew about the 2 tones of grey (white being the lightest shade of grey.) Though I’m not sure about the front/back facing surfaces. Rather visible edges were light grey, while not visible edges (from the camera’s vantage point) were dark grey. The f9/f10 viewing distance can help, but which chunks of map it removes isn’t always the ones you want removed.

    The draw order with keys and hostages on the map seems correct, though that’s with a source port which may have altered some details from the original.

    EDIT: the reason it’s per edge rather than per surface is because an edge belongs to 2 surfaces, and when one of those surfaces is facing you and the other is not which one would it choose?

    EDIT 2: actually a white edge doesn’t always mean the edge is visible, such as if a line from the camera to the edge goes through solid space, then empty space, then solid space yet again it is drawn as white and not as grey. A better way to look at is start from the edge and goto the camera; if the first thing it encounters is solid space then draw as white, otherwise draw as grey (though which endpoint of the edge should you use, they could yield different results.)

    #7278

    hypersonic
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 220

    Sublevel Zero is a good example of using plain-color surfaces for the map, with shading https://youtu.be/U3drBuaZvsM?t=19m50s (sometimes you get a 30sec ad)

    #7285
    Haunted Parrasp
    Haunted Parrasp
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 31
    Replies: 428

    A real-time map on a separate monitor would be awesome. I actually tried to add that to D1, but using a tablet for it – gameplay happens on the big screen while my co-pilot navigates.

    Descent rally! It’s even off road.
    Very very off road, in fact.

    Ship’s cat, MPSV Iberia
    Check out his original music @ http://vertigofox.bandcamp.com/

    #7290
    TwoCables
    TwoCables
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 118
    Replies: 1474

    As an alternative to being on a separate monitor, I think being in a window off in a corner so you can play while the map is on would work. With single large high-res displays I think it would be practical.

    One problem with that could be that it would be much more demanding due to all the extra real-time rendering that would need to be done.

    Click on the map to focus

    Click on the map? That might work for joystick or gamepad users (where you see a mouse cursor every time you move the mouse, but it autohides after like 1 second or 5 seconds), but what about keyboard & mouse users?

    then manipulate the range and orientation of the camera to your ship, then unfocus from the map and have it follow your ship as you play with that orientation and range.

    That would definitely be nice.

    As long as it’s not a wireframe model as in Descent where you don’t know what’s in front of what, or what lines go with other lines to create a surface (as is the case in some very complex maps.) Having an option to show plain-colored walls or textured walls in the map would be cool.

    In VR mode you could say look down at your legs to see the map while flying, for example.

    I sincerely doubt that they will have a wireframe model because the capability to do something much more and much better than that is there.

    Prepare for Overload…

    #7291
    MarleyMoo
    MarleyMoo
    Participant
    Topics: 0
    Replies: 16

    As an alternative to being on a separate monitor, I think being in a window off in a corner so you can play while the map is on would work. With single large high-res displays I think it would be practical.

    One problem with that could be that it would be much more demanding due to all the extra real-time rendering that would need to be done.

    Click on the map to focus

    Click on the map? That might work for joystick or gamepad users (where you see a mouse cursor every time you move the mouse, but it autohides after like 1 second or 5 seconds), but what about keyboard & mouse users?

    I’m pretty sure rendering the map concurrently would not cause a performance problem. Think of any recent racing game that has reflective car paint… It takes 6 extra renders of the world at a high quality to form a cubemap which is sampled to render the reflections. Then there’s the rear view mirror which might take another extra render. Since the map is going to be either wire frame or flat-shaded, and rendered only once, its performance cost is minuscule.

    As for using the mouse to fly *and* navigate the map… I think there could be a toggle key that switches between controlling the flight or the map. However, I think it’s a bit too complicated for a game such as Overload, which is supposed to be very action oriented.

    Perhaps there can be some sort of augmented reality overlay, which in effect allows you to see through walls. A bit like the Vive’s chaperone mode, but blending in the (already discovered) map instead.

    #7292

    hypersonic
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 220

    A plain colored shaded map similar to the one in Sublevel Zero would be very easy for today’s GPUs. It wouldn’t have to show all the crazy detail such as rocks protruding out from the walls and shiny surfaces.

    Clicking on the map was just one idea to toggle between controlling the ship and controlling the camera on the map. A better idea would be just to use a toggle button, especially while in VR mode as moving a pointer along a sphere would be weird.

    #7293

    hypersonic
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 220

    Ya it would be like one render pass per surface, piece of cake.

    Descent was an action-oriented game as well, yet when you get into complicated levels you can get lost easily. Being able to move while looking at the map would be a welcome feature. In Doom1 you could move while in map mode. In Diablo2 you could see the map while playing.

    It crossed my mind being able to see through walls to see already discovered portions of the map. However that is limited to that one vantage point, while the vantage point of a camera in a map can be anywhere.

    #7294
    StatiC
    StatiC
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 89

    I actually find it hard to navigate the map in d1 and d2 at times. It’s center of rotation seems very confusing to me. I like the new observatory mode in the Descent Retro mod 1.4×5 where you move by like you would normally in game except you can go through walls and are much faster. It makes navigating easier to me if that were also done in the map.

    #7299

    hypersonic
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 220

    Oh ya, the original automap controls can get weird sometimes where you have to toggle it off then back on again to get it back to normal. In the DXX Rebirth source port there’s a checkbox in misc called ‘Free flight controls on automap’ which I find to be more intuitive. Basically you control the camera exactly like you do the ship.

    EDIT: The map could not only show you an overview of the map geometry, but also show you where those homer missiles are coming from, and not just have that screech noise at timed intervals. Perhaps even show you the robot locations in the room that you’re presently in allowing you to intelligently maneuver your ship based on the robot layout.

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