Home Forums Overload Early Release Version Bug Reports and Questions Missile icons don't disappear from inventory when empty

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This topic contains 15 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of LotharBot LotharBot 23 Mar 2017 @ 1:39pm.

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  • #12666
    Yoshimitsu
    Yoshimitsu
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 19
    Replies: 208

    In a recent challenge mode run I noticed that when I emptied my creepers, the creeper icon stayed present in my weapon inventory. I’ve realized that this behavior has caused me, on several occasion, to waste time and focus attempting to select a missile that I don’t have because I thought that the select was skipping order like the missile pod bug I reported.

    I don’t know how easy it would be to remove the missile icon when the inventory is depleted but it could be a very helpful feature.

    #12669
    LemurFromTheId
    LemurFromTheId
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 14

    Agreed. I’ve noticed this too and it has caused me some inconvenience. By “some inconvenience” I mean my ship has been blown apart multiple times, causing grievous burns and injury to my behind.

    #12713
    Mechanism
    Mechanism
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 33

    I’d say just turn them red instead of getting rid of them. I think the icons are there to indicate that you’ve “discovered” a weapon, as finding new weapons was a big part of the old games. It wouldn’t make sense for your ship to “forget” about secondaries it’s run out of, especially for a Descent-inspired game.

    #12715
    Yoshimitsu
    Yoshimitsu
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 19
    Replies: 208

    That’s a good point Mechanism. Greying out or turning the icons red would definitely help communicate “empty.”

    #12721
    Sirius
    Sirius
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 5
    Replies: 276

    But also keep in mind red-green color blindness. Nonetheless, the idea of a different effect to say “empty” vs “not discovered” makes sense.

    #12724
    DarkwingDiva
    DarkwingDiva
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 26
    Replies: 265

    Like having an “X” through each icon?

    #12730
    TwoCables
    TwoCables
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 88
    Replies: 1141

    But also keep in mind red-green color blindness. Nonetheless, the idea of a different effect to say “empty” vs “not discovered” makes sense.

    Thank you. I use the Aqua UI color because of my slight color blindness. Colors that probably stand out quite a bit with Green and Amber don’t stand out to be much at all – but on Aqua, they stand out like beacons in the night.

    I would prefer to use the Green UI color, but when I discovered from using Aqua that some elements are a different color and are supposed to stick out quite a bit, I decided that Aqua is my best color of choice.

    So, turning them red on empty would be perfect! I addition to turning them red, perhaps the entire box could be filled in with a more transparent red while the box itself is a distinct red or something.

    Prepare for Overload…

    #12735
    LemurFromTheId
    LemurFromTheId
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 14

    I’d say just turn them red instead of getting rid of them. I think the icons are there to indicate that you’ve “discovered” a weapon, as finding new weapons was a big part of the old games. It wouldn’t make sense for your ship to “forget” about secondaries it’s run out of, especially for a Descent-inspired game.

    I don’t understand. Finding new weapons so you could use them was a big part of the old games, but how is it in any way important to know that you’ve had a missile that you don’t have any more? The situation is the same as if you never had it in the first place.

    Being able to look at the HUD and to see at a glance which tools I have a available is useful and valuable. Being able to look at the HUD and to see which tools I’ve had at some point but may not have any more is not.

    Or is this some kind of “achievement” thing? “Make all the icons light up by finding at least one of each secondary weapon.” What would be the point of that? And why not make it a quest to have at least one of each?

    I’m just not seeing any legitimate, useful reason for the HUD to function the way it does right now. It’s just counterproductive.

    #12739
    TwoCables
    TwoCables
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 88
    Replies: 1141

    We need to know when one of our Secondary weapons that we found is completely ‘dry’. So, it shouldn’t disappear from the HUD. If it did, then we could potentially forget that we ever picked it up or even what weapon goes there.

    Staying on the HUD when dry will also help the player memorize which slots are for which weapons very quickly.

    So, if a weapon disappears from the HUD when it’s dry, then a new player could be like, “wait a minute…. what the heck is going on here? Where’s that one weapon I picked up? What was it? Argh!” There’s also that potential of, “Ok, I know weapons disappear from the HUD when they’re dry, but which one went in that empty slot? I can’t remember. It’s too hard to remember because they disappear when I run out.” It would be very annoying and I think people would be reporting it as a bug, like: “Weapon icons disappear from HUD when I run out.”

    So, the rule of the HUD should be that, once you’ve picked a weapon up, it becomes a part of the ship’s inventory. It goes into the ship’s computer and always tells you which slot it goes in even when you’re completely out. When you’re out, I agree with Mechanism’s idea that it should turn red in some way. It should look like it’s grayed out, but red.

    Or maybe it should just be that each slot should *ALWAYS* show which weapon goes there, even if you haven’t picked it up yet. I mean, perhaps they should be gray until you pick them up, and then they stay full-color until you run out – and then they go red until you get more ammo and then they go back to being full-color. Or maybe they change to a couple of different colors depending on ammo level.

    My inspiration for the idea of the icons *always* showing which weapons go in the slots even before you ever find them comes from Descent where you can press any number for any weapon you haven’t discovered yet and it will tell you that you don’t have it yet. Now of course, pressing your Primary or Secondary weapon selection buttons shouldn’t cycle through all of the weapon slots even if the slot is empty. No. It should skip the empty slots. However, we should be able to press the corresponding numbers on our keyboard. When we do, the slot on the HUD should briefly light up – it should be highlighted briefly. We would still want to see text on the top saying things like we see in Descent too. That’s still cool.

    Regardless of those fancier ideas, I think that weapon icons disappearing when we run out of ammo for that weapon is really not helpful or useful or a good idea in any way for any reason.

    Prepare for Overload…

    #12808
    LemurFromTheId
    LemurFromTheId
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 14

    We need to know when one of our Secondary weapons that we found is completely ‘dry’. So, it shouldn’t disappear from the HUD. If it did, then we could potentially forget that we ever picked it up or even what weapon goes there.

    What does it matter whether we forget if we ever picked up some secondary weapon if we don’t have it anymore? The situation is exactly the same as if we never picked it up in the first place. The best, easiest and clearest way to communicate that a secondary weapon is ‘dry’ is to remove the corresponding icon.

    Staying on the HUD when dry will also help the player memorize which slots are for which weapons very quickly.

    So, if a weapon disappears from the HUD when it’s dry, then a new player could be like, “wait a minute…. what the heck is going on here? Where’s that one weapon I picked up? What was it? Argh!” There’s also that potential of, “Ok, I know weapons disappear from the HUD when they’re dry, but which one went in that empty slot? I can’t remember. It’s too hard to remember because they disappear when I run out.” It would be very annoying and I think people would be reporting it as a bug, like: “Weapon icons disappear from HUD when I run out.”

    I don’t buy this at all, I think you’re underestimating the players’ intelligence here. The secondary weapons are obviously consumables, and I don’t think it’s going to confuse any significant portion of the playerbase when a missile icon vanishes as they fire their last missile.

    What’s confusing here is that you have icons for some (yet not all) secondary weapons that you don’t actually have in your possession.

    Regardless of those fancier ideas, I think that weapon icons disappearing when we run out of ammo for that weapon is really not helpful or useful or a good idea in any way for any reason.

    Yes, it really is a helpful, useful and good idea when it comes to secondary weapons, which are clearly different from primary weapons. That way the HUD tells you at a glance which weapons you have available.

    I have died multiple times in challenge mode because I tried to switch to a secondary that I don’t actually have. The tiny bar underneath is just not that visible at a glance. With primary weapons you don’t have that problem, because it’s much easier to keep track of your energy and ammo.

    #12809
    TwoCables
    TwoCables
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 88
    Replies: 1141

    As a spiritual successor to Descent, I am expecting the final full game to have exactly what I described because in Descent, I can still see what each slot is for. Yes, I have to press the corresponding number, but still. With Overload, I *don’t* know what each slot is for until I have acquired what goes in that slot, and that’s not what I would expect from a good spiritual successor to Descent. Even pressing the corresponding numbers doesn’t help yet.

    You wouldn’t have any problem knowing whether you are out of any Secondary if the ideas that we are talking about are implemented with the obvious color differences. Imagine it being red and maybe faded a bit or something like that. Regardless of your UI color preference, that would stand out like a sore thumb. Also, and this is very important: you wouldn’t be able to select it. Selecting it wouldn’t be allowed if you’re out of that Secondary. So, the problem of trying to select a Secondary that you’re out of is completely solved because to start with, it’s red and so you’re obviously out, and secondly, you can’t select it because the game won’t let you if you’re out.

    It would be less of a problem for all players this way instead of having the slot go back to being empty (and thus, no longer indicating what that slot is for).

    Prepare for Overload…

    #12836
    Yoshimitsu
    Yoshimitsu
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 19
    Replies: 208

    Also, and this is very important: you wouldn’t be able to select it. Selecting it wouldn’t be allowed if you’re out of that Secondary. So, the problem of trying to select a Secondary that you’re out of is completely solved because to start with, it’s red and so you’re obviously out, and secondly, you can’t select it because the game won’t let you if you’re out.

    I agree that a color change of the icon would work beautifully (I’d vote for it going a nearly translucent grey myself). However, not being able to select an empty missile does not solve the problem. The problem is wasting time and focus TRYING to select a missile that’s empty. Right now especially there are bugs in the weapon select order and often I have to spend several seconds in combat trying to determine if the missile I want is empty or if it’s just getting skipped by the bugs. This frequently leads to me dying because My focus is on wrestling the inventory system instead of dodging. Yes the bugs need to be fixed but if there was a way to see which missiles are gone then it wouldn’t be nearly as bad.

    #12839
    Profile photo of Luke Schneider
    Luke Schneider
    Overload Team
    Topics: 9
    Replies: 91

    Sorry I haven’t kept up with this thread. Missiles with no ammo now have their icon faded (in the next drop). So you know you’ve had them, but it’ll be obvious you don’t have any.

    Not sure we’ve got all the bugs ironed out, as I’ve been focused on the singleplayer level for the next drop and Mike/Matt may have taken care of them (or not).

    Other stuff I’m sure will be in (sorry can’t keep up with all the forum stuff right now):
    * Option to disable weapon auto-select
    * Brightness option
    * Can see armor amount while invulnerable
    * Titan toned down in difficulty a tiny bit
    * Overlapping warning messages reduced in challenge mode
    * When you destroy a robot generator the lights around it turn off

    As for weapon upgrading in SP, it’s currently planned to be between levels. Doesn’t mean it’ll have to be that way, but it’ll be that way once we have two SP levels in (the screen itself hasn’t been worked on yet).

    Luke

    #12844
    Yoshimitsu
    Yoshimitsu
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 19
    Replies: 208

    Thanks Luke! It seems like every time you folks announce new features they make me happy. Looking forward to the next release! 😀

    #12845
    DarkwingDiva
    DarkwingDiva
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 26
    Replies: 265

    Wow, thank you very much for the update Luke! I appreciate the continued hard work and the willingness to listen and tweak things based on feedback. I look forward to the next drop! 🙂

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