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This topic contains 60 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Kryyss Kryyss 11 Jul 2018 @ 5:08am.

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 61 total)
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  • #17927

    hypersonic
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 220

    Ya I remember you did mention it either, I was just responding to Twocable’s post just above it. On the west coast, looks like this forum is on central time.

    EDIT: same here! Oh, the west coast of the US, sorry.

    #17928

    bwabbit
    Participant
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 18

    *chuckles*
    It’s fine. 🙂
    The west coast? There’s a lot of those depending on which country you’re in. 🙂
    I’m from the UK with a bad habit of staying up way too late. I’ve enjoyed our conversation though!

    #17946
    TwoCables
    TwoCables
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 118
    Replies: 1474

    There can be a huge difference between having G-SYNC or FreeSync on a high refresh rate and *NOT* having it.

    Let’s say for the sake of argument that you buy a 144 Hz monitor that doesn’t have G-SYNC or FreeSync. This can be a problem if you can’t get framerates that average at least 144 or higher for the same reason it can be a problem with a 60 Hz monitor if you can never get up to 60 FPS. Yes, if your framerates are hovering at like say 100-120, then that is far better than like 40-50, but still, the same visual issues will occur. It’s the same thing. You do not want a non-G-SYNC or non-FreeSync high refresh rate monitor if your framerates will always be lower than the refresh rate.

    So, if you were to replace that monitor with one that has G-SYNC or FreeSync (depending on which GPU you have, whether it’s an NVIDIA GPU or AMD), then it will never matter that your framerates are always lower than the refresh rate because the refresh rate will be synchronized to the framerate.

    Therefore, if you have a powerful enough system that lets you easily get super high framerates that are pretty much always above 144 or 165 depending on the refresh rate your monitor has, then no, you likely won’t see a big enough difference to justify the purchase of a G-SYNC or FreeSync monitor. G-SYNC and FreeSync is more helpful for systems that cannot consistently get such high framerates.

    This also means that if you want to have a 240 Hz monitor, then you’d better make absolutely sure your system can get framerates that high or higher most of the time or else you will need or want G-SYNC or FreeSync. Is it necessary? No, because you can play on a 240 Hz monitor without V-SYNC. Is it better to have G-SYNC or FreeSync? Absolutely. G-SYNC/FreeSync can be a game-changer. It was definitely a game-changer for me.

    I have the AOC G2460PG (a 144 Hz 1080p G-SYNC monitor) and a mildly-overclocked GTX 780 with an i5-2500K at 4.5 GHz and 8 GB of DDR3-1866 high performance gaming memory (the exact model can be provided on request). I had a 60 Hz 1680 x 1050 monitor, and the difference for just Overload alone amazed me. My framerates in Overload are consistently well above 60. They run between 80 and about 130-140. My framerates get capped at 143 for G-SYNC in Overload (maybe it’s a feature of Unity, I don’t know). If I didn’t have G-SYNC but I still had a refresh rate of 144, then I wouldn’t be quite as happy.

    As for the PSU, we cannot just say “400W” or “500W” because it’s just not safe to generalize like that. Low-quality, generic PSUs can kill a computer, and many of them are unable to provide any more power than a good quality-made 300-400W PSU can. It is absolutely critical to never take a casual attitude toward the power supply in a gaming system. In an office PC, sure, that’s mostly fine, but not with a gaming system. It’s not worth the risk. The power demand of gaming systems is much greater for much longer periods of time.

    When you see a power requirement for a video card, it is referring to peak-rated PSUs. Let’s take the 500W PSU requirement. A 500W peak-rated PSU would deliver the same amount of power (albeit poorly) as a good quality-made 400W PSU. Similarly, a peak-rated 400W PSU can’t deliver any more power than a good 300W PSU can, and it would, again, do so poorly. There is a LOT more to know about PSUs than just their advertised wattage capacity. The proverbial rabbit hole goes extremely deep and there are tons of offshoots. The world of PSUs is surprisingly complex.

    You can stay relatively close to the entrance of this proverbial rabbit hole though by just knowing that it’s much more important to be sure of the stability and quality and accuracy of the power the PSU delivers. Generic, low-quality PSUs have very unstable and very inaccurate dirty power. That can kill a computer slowly over time. If you can get an expert-recommended good quality-made PSU, then you can rest assured that it will not hurt your computer. Even if it doesn’t have enough power, such a PSU would just harmless turn off. A low-quality PSU can die and kill the computer when it dies. Some are so bad they can actually start a fire on their death, even when you’re not home (if you leave the computer on). PSUs are not something to be taken lightly. They aren’t all the same.

    So, that’s why I made a point earlier to ask Moon exactly which brand and model power supply he has.

    Prepare for Overload…

    #17954

    meisanerd
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 0
    Replies: 4

    Echoing the power supply comments, I have personally had to rebuild a number of computers as a direct result of poor power supplies (*cough* *cough* Antec…), it basically kills everything in the computer (mobo, cpu, graphics card, hard drives).

    I now do not buy a power supply that has not been reviewed by either HardOCP or JonnyGuru, as they both push the PSU to the limit during testing (they have killed a few).

    #17955
    TwoCables
    TwoCables
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 118
    Replies: 1474

    Antec doesn’t just have low-quality PSUs. Only some of the models they sell are bad. Some are in-between, and some are downright amazing. So please, let’s not blackball Antec just because some of the models they sell aren’t any good for use in gaming systems. The same can be said for just about any brand. Yes, there are some brands that can be avoided entirely without missing out on any decent PSUs, but I won’t list them here.

    It’s not that JonnyGURU.com reviewers push the PSUs to the limits, but they also know how to properly test and review *AND RATE* a PSU. They are about the best in the business when it comes to knowing whether a PSU is any good.

    Prepare for Overload…

    #17956

    hypersonic
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 220

    No matter how low your framerate goes on a 144hz (7ms) display, the longest display lag time wouldn’t be over 7ms, and that’s assuming a display has to keep scanning even if the image doesn’t change (rather just wait for a new image before scanning again.) A G/Free sync would be much more noticeable on a 60hz (16.7ms) display where you might have a display lag of up to 16.7ms.

    Perhaps what G/Free sync does is double scan. It continues to draw the same image over again while at the same time starts scanning a new image in, that is assuming an image can’t be held without constant scanning.

    #17957
    TwoCables
    TwoCables
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 118
    Replies: 1474

    I can’t care what it does. I just know what the end results are, and the end result is you get a superior gaming experience. The technical hows or whys don’t change the results.

    Prepare for Overload…

    #17958

    bwabbit
    Participant
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 18

    I can’t care what it does. I just know what the end results are, and the end result is you get a superior gaming experience. The technical hows or whys don’t change the results.

    I think it varies a lot from person to person to be honest. There’s no doubt that it’s an improvement, just not convinced by the extent. If NVidia would start supporting FreeSync it’d all be academic anyway as those monitors don’t come at much of a price premium.

    As regards PSUs – with *anything* that accepts mains voltage, you should absolutely go for quality, although the same thing applies to mechanical hard-drives if you care about data-loss and you don’t want to bother with RAID. As long as you leave a bit of margin on the wattage and you’re not cutting corners by using some cheap imported non-regulation supply then you should be fine. If only for safety reasons, don’t cut corners on high-power electrical goods period.

    By the same token regarding quality – choice of motherboard is also important – I built up a system once with a cheap MB and it absolutely killed the GPU performance.

    #17961
    TwoCables
    TwoCables
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 118
    Replies: 1474

    I think it varies a lot from person to person to be honest. There’s no doubt that it’s an improvement, just not convinced by the extent. If NVidia would start supporting FreeSync it’d all be academic anyway as those monitors don’t come at much of a price premium.

    In my experience with G-SYNC, you have to experience it in order to understand. I used to scoff at it and tell people that I think it’s just a stupid Placebo Effect gimmick that only exists to fool people and to fill NVIDIA’s greedy pockets.

    I was absolutely incorrect about that.

    Have you experienced it (or FreeSync)?

    As regards PSUs – with *anything* that accepts mains voltage, you should absolutely go for quality, although the same thing applies to mechanical hard-drives if you care about data-loss and you don’t want to bother with RAID. As long as you leave a bit of margin on the wattage and you’re not cutting corners by using some cheap imported non-regulation supply then you should be fine. If only for safety reasons, don’t cut corners on high-power electrical goods period.

    By the same token regarding quality – choice of motherboard is also important – I built up a system once with a cheap MB and it absolutely killed the GPU performance.

    Amen!!

    Prepare for Overload…

    #17962

    bwabbit
    Participant
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 18

    In my experience with G-SYNC, you have to experience it in order to understand. I used to scoff at it and tell people that I think it’s just a stupid Placebo Effect gimmick that only exists to fool people and to fill NVIDIA’s greedy pockets.

    I was absolutely incorrect about that.

    Have you experienced it (or FreeSync)?

    FreeSync, yes. G-Sync, no. I could tell a slight difference in frame-rate fluidity if I paid close attention but none in latency. This was however with a game that had a target framerate setting (fps-dependent LOD basically) so the average FPS only varied by 25% or so. I used to put up with games running at ~20fps in the past though so maybe my ‘temporal visual acuity’ isn’t too great (different people…).

    #17963

    hypersonic
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 220

    A good way to determine how much of an affect would be to get monitors with the same refresh rate, one with G/Free sync, and one without.

    #18346
    Kryyss
    Kryyss
    Participant
    Topics: 10
    Replies: 29

    Just to warn you now. Hardware prices are going to start to rise now in the US due to the trade war with China where most components are manufactured. So if you want to keep the cost down, it’s best not to wait around hoping for a price drop.

    The next gen of gfx cards is still a good 6 months away too so current gen is fine. Processor wise, there us nothing really due for another 12 months except for tweaks to existing designs. Current gen SSDs are currently facing a huge clear out because of a new gen coming in and there being a move to 64-layer NAND which is far superior to current hardware. But an SSD is a luxery in all honesty. At present an over clocked i5 8600k is the best value for money. Most retailers offer a 4.6ghz OC version but if you want to do it manually you can bump them up to 5ghz. When it comes to performance an OC i5 is only around 5fps slower than the stock i7 on most games set on high defaults @1080p but is significantly cheaper.

    On the gfx card side I can recommend the gtx 1060 3gb if you want to keep the cost down. The crypto goldrush ruined the prices of most mid-range cards by pushing them into the 300+ price band. The only survivor was the 1060 3gb due to builders looking down on what they considered a handicapped RAM spec. If you can live without 4k textures then 3gb is plenty for any games being released in the next 3yrs. I’ve been running Ark at 1080p with settings on high and ultra while maintaining a steady 45-55fps if that is any reassurance – and we all know how poorly optimised that game is.

    #18350

    hypersonic
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 220

    Sounds like good advice! Just a minor aside: 5fps could be a lot or a little, so maybe stating x milliseconds of frametime might be a better indicator of processing speed.

    20fps (50ms) to 25fps (40ms) is 5fps, and a whopping 20% difference in frametime.
    120fps (8.3ms) to 125fps (8.0ms) is also 5fps, but an imperceptible 3.6% difference in frametime.

    #18351
    Kryyss
    Kryyss
    Participant
    Topics: 10
    Replies: 29

    Sorry, I got it backwards because I was going from memory. Based upon tests done with various games by tomshardware. A 5ghz i5 8600k outperforms a stock i7 by a few fps in games. Here’s a link to the performance tests, the chart shows comparisons between stock and OC versions.

    https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/intel-coffee-lake-core-i5-8600k-cpu,review-34060-5.html

    For example, on Far Cry Primal set to ultra @1080p an OC i5 was averaging 101fps while the stock i7 was 97fps. However, after checking the prices of bundles today it looks like the stock i7 are being sold for less than an OC i5 now. So I’d say the i7 is now the better deal depending on the outlet.

    #18355

    snyper
    Participant
    Topics: 11
    Replies: 9

    I need a new computer, mine is too old and slow. I’m quite blown away, a buddy’s 4K monitor impressed the hell out of me so I’m thinking about going all in. But what hardware specs do I need for a full Overload experience in 4k?

    Graphics card with Shader 3.0 support (1GB+ VRAM recommended)
    2GHz Dual core processor or higher (i3 or higher recommended)
    4GB of memory
    10GB of HD space (rough estimate, could be higher)

    translates to what CPU, GPU and RAM?

    I run a core i5-4690k 3.5ghz overclocked to 4.2ghz with 16gb DDR3 RAM. For GPU I have a GTX 1070Ti and I use an ultra wide 2k screen. My GPU is pegged at 99% the entire time running Overload, my CPU averages 40-50% and my frame rate averages 50-60fps. In intense action it will drop down to 40fps. Now, that is with all the goodies turned up high and my resolution at 3440×1440. If you want to experience 4k in Overload with all the goodies turned up high, you would need something even better than the 1070Ti. Probably the GTX titan or two 1080Ti cards in SLI. Not sure what AMD has to offer on their side though. I will say though, I found that if you turn off screen space reflections, you’ll gain 20-30fps with a minimal detail loss.

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