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  • #2540
    MobiusMobius
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 9
    Replies: 35

    Hi again Descent peeps. Looks like our dreams might come true!

    I only found out about this in the last 24 hours. So I pledged $25 – just because of the video I saw, and the fact it’s some of the original crew. I am manic for a new Descent-like game – and some history here: I dropped a massive (and I do mean massive) amount of money on Cadenza to complete the 6DOF game Retrovirus when they failed to hit their kickstarter goal. I lost a shit-ton of money investing in the game, sadly – as it failed to succeed on release.

    I contend that one of the reasons it failed to do well, was that it was a single player game with a multiplayer available. This is exactly and precisely the wrong way to make a new 6DOF game in my view. I spent a LOT of time, but failed to convince Cadenza to make the game a Multiplayer ONLY game, with SP coming when the game succeeds. Practice with Bots in MP levels should be the only singleplayer option on release.

    The reason is that SP takes so long to develop (and so much money!) when it’s the MP which contains the replay value in the game. Only a strong online community can sustain and nurture a new 6DOF combat game like Descent in my view. SP does not offer the 6DOF fix we all crave, and blowing up reactors is fun – but boring.

    I seriously urge the team to reconsider the order of development of the game.

    When the kickstarter fails (and it will – because it currently needs 68 people an hour pledging $25 each to make the goal) you will need to rethink the process. What you will need to do is begin an early access program – with the SP completely gone from the picture, until your sales goal is reached.

    This will allow you to work with the community, and have hundreds of people pay you to test your code, to develop the ultimate 6DOF multiplayer experience. This will radically reduce your cost-to-market, and allow you to concentrate on the mission-critical aspect of the game, which is of course, Multiplayer balancing of ships and weapons.

    If that portion of the game sells, then Single Player could be released in episodes, allowing you to earn as you work, rather than rely on some angel investor (like me) to come save your ass. (I won’t. Once bitten, twice shy.)

    This is what Descent in the 21st century means to me: “the best multiplayer out of the box”. Does that sound familiar guys?

    #2541
    Quadruplesword
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 10
    Replies: 31

    “SP does not offer the 6DOF fix we all crave, and blowing up reactors is fun – but boring.”

    Look, no offense… but please don’t act like you speak for everybody. I beat Descent twice this year already, and am in the middle of a second playthrough of Descent 2. Never even once considered touching multiplayer (partly because anyone still playing it would eat me alive, but I digress). Also, here’s a fun fact: The creators originally never intended to have a multiplayer mode in the original Descent, but they were forced to by Interplay.

    #2543
    Entroper
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 9

    I’m not sure I agree with your premise.

    Replay value is only part of the whole value of a game, and multiplayer is only part of that. Player tastes vary widely — some aren’t interested in SP at all, others aren’t interested in MP at all. I think you’ll find lots of disagreement that blowing up reactors is “boring”.

    And MP development and testing are expensive, too.

    #2549
    Edward
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 13
    Replies: 38

    I seriously urge the team to reconsider the order of development of the game.

    And effectively pull a bait and switch to everyone who has contributed so far?

    #2554
    TwoCablesTwoCables
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 118
    Replies: 1474

    Right, that’s all we need: another MP-only 6-DoF game that will have a SP campaign on the game’s retail launch. Yeah, that’ll make the community extremely happy. So no, that won’t be happening. Besides, they know what they’re doing. Trust them. They have been doing this for decades.

    Besides, I am in this because it’s SP-only to start with. The 6-DoF experience I crave is a good single-player campaign. The only thing I enjoy about Descent 1-3 is the SP campaign experience. So, you aren’t speaking for me, that’s for sure. I love this game with my entire heart and soul, and you will not be able to change how I feel about it, nor will you be able to change how anyone else feels about it – including Revival Productions. Like I said, they know what they’re doing, so leave them alone. Trust them.

    Prepare for Overload…

    #2556
    PumoPumo
    Participant
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 27

    Well, to be honest I’m also not really interested on Multiplayer, so for me Overload being focused on Single Player is precisely the thing that I just wanted.

    For a Multiplayer focused experience, there’s already Descent: Underground out there.

    http://pumosoft.3d-get.de – Pumo Software official Website
    – Pumo Mines progress: 60%

    #2568
    SeaWyrm
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 1
    Replies: 21

    blowing up reactors is fun – but boring.

    How can something be fun and boring at the same time?

    #2584
    Haunted ParraspHaunted Parrasp
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 31
    Replies: 428

    There’s more than one way to make a game “well”, there’s more than one type of 6DoF game, and there’s more than one audience for these games. I don’t know about you but we’re already getting two multiplayer Descent clones in the next year, I wouldn’t be quite as thrilled for a third — the genre is just coming back, it shouldn’t be getting repetitive already.
    Anyhow, Descent, as you say, was a great multiplayer game, and it was made with singleplayer first. And guess who made that game…

    As far as Retrovirus goes, you’re measuring the success of a game intended for its singleplayer by its multiplayer activity. Of course you’re going to judge it a failure.

    Ship’s cat, MPSV Iberia
    Check out his original music @ http://vertigofox.bandcamp.com/

    #2586
    tueidj
    Participant
    Topics: 1
    Replies: 64

    If you’re so confident it will fail, there’s no harm in upping your pledge right?

    #2593
    krayzkrokkrayzkrok
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 10
    Replies: 185

    Overload doesn’t have as much momentum as Descent: Underground for other reasons than it not being MP focused. Not having the familiar Descent name for one, coming in second after D:U stole some of its thunder for two. Now that people are seeing the playable teaser though, interest is ramping up. The last 24-48 hours of any KS campaign are often the strongest and pledges come in at a much higher rate, so it’s not over yet.

    Descent wouldn’t have seen the success it did originally if it didn’t have a robust SP campaign. SP brings many players to the game, the MP community develops mostly out of that. Is there a strong enough MP-only community to fund Overload without that SP component? Who knows (D:U started doing a lot better with their KS campaign once they promised to offer a single player component). It might be less costly to build an MP-only game, but there’s the risk that the MP-community stagnates within weeks / months, and then you’d never see a SP component anyway.

    Let’s not quibble too much over these things though, let’s help to get the game funded!

    #2594
    TwoCablesTwoCables
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 118
    Replies: 1474

    Descendent Studios always had SP planned, but they didn’t do a good job of advertising it on their Kickstarter page – and they humbly admitted it in their KS YouTube videos! They said they learned a lot about how to do a good campaign from actually doing their campaign. They even said that even though they weren’t talking about it very clearly on their KS page, the SP campaign was always planned from the very beginning.

    Eric said many times that there’s no way he would have done a Descent game without giving it an epic single-player campaign. After he said that, Rob chimed in and said, “Yeah, that wouldn’t be very Decenty”. Eric even apologized for the confusion.

    Prepare for Overload…

    #2595
    bemosabemosa
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 39
    Replies: 240

    For what it’s worth, I am happy they are doing multiplayer but it really doesn’t interest me personally all that much. Everyone is different. I am keen to play single player, and build and share some single player maps (if I can rise to the challenge).

    #2599
    Dacien
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 8
    Replies: 106

    Single player is the single most prominent memory I have of Descent. I did plenty of dial-up multiplayer, but it’s the hours spent in single player that sticks out in my mind.

    If the 6DoF genre is one thing right now, it is multiplayer saturated. I think only Sublevel Zero isn’t multiplayer-focused, correct me if I’m wrong. If Overload went multiplayer-centric, it would be entering a very crowded space.

    I feel like if you want a 6DoF multiplayer shooter, you have a lot of options.

    #2600
    krayzkrokkrayzkrok
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 10
    Replies: 185

    Descendent Studios always had SP planned, but they didn’t do a good job of advertising it on their Kickstarter page – and they humbly admitted it in their KS YouTube videos! They said they learned a lot about how to do a good campaign from actually doing their campaign. They even said that even though they weren’t talking about it very clearly on their KS page, the SP campaign was always planned from the very beginning.

    I think that “are they, or aren’t they doing single player?” confusion was what held a lot of people off, at least until they clarified it. In fact, I remember the first news report on Eurogamer which described the game as a MOBA! Check this out: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-03-10-descent-is-being-rebooted-as-a-moba-on-kickstarter

    Yes, they did a terrible job at communication at first, and it still dogs them. When I started talking about Overload on another forum I visit, someone asked “Is that the MOBA game, or a different one?”

    [edit] Hmmm, sorry I seem to have replied to the wrong person! Forums are hard.

    #2603
    headsoupheadsoup
    Participant
    Topics: 0
    Replies: 15

    Single Player is a much higher priority for me.

    Then co-op

    Then MP

    I think by itself having competitive multiplayer defines nothing of a game’s quality and can often leverage cheap tricks and addictive elements to create ‘longevity’ rather than a genuinely quality and immersive experience. Just IMO though 🙂

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