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  • #14528
    D2DiscipleD2Disciple
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 81

    I suppose I disagree with this. The mouse controls are poor imo, worse then Descent, Overload, and Sol: C. From my understanding of the discussions I’ve seen on their forums, it wasn’t necessarily making it feel exactly like D1, but rather less like a flight sim that most people were after. Nerfing mouse control to be fair to gamepad/joystick users are one thing, but I find controlling the ship drone with a gamepad to be much smoother. I have not tried a joystick.

    Perhaps I misstated my opinion, because I think we’re on the same page here, DW. Overload and Sol:C definitely control significantly better than D:U, although I might argue D:U controls no better or worse than a mouse than D1 – depending on your choice of “drone,” which I imagine largely determines the quality of your experience (I prefer the Typhoon, in case you were wondering).

    Sol:C Proving Grounds was, by far, the most fun I’ve had playing MP, and honestly, I kinda feel like it’s a complete package as-is, although I’m sad to see it die. Three great maps, two great modes, a selection of wonderfully-balanced weapons… Sure, that doesn’t sound like a lot of content, but played fairly competitively, it’s all you really need to have a blast.

    I do wonder how much of some of the previous posts would be said to their faces. Oh well.

    Recently, I’ve taken the position that “if you can’t say nothin’ good, don’t say nothin’ at all.” 🙂 I used to be pretty argumentative and even downright injurious at times online, but the truth is that, like any business venture, some projects succeed, and some projects fail. If D:U is one that will fail (and at 2 years with no clear end in sight, it surely looks like it), then I will praise it for what it did well: provide a unique, fun spin on the Descent MP experience. I got plenty of hours of enjoyment out of the EA and, considering I backed at a low level, I more than got my money’s worth. Others, especially those that backed at a very high level, are certainly free to disagree.

    And I ask this of anyone who backed that project, is the game in it’s current state after over 2 years of early access where you thought it would be in terms of content/polish/overall experience?

    You got me there, DW… The answer is, sadly, no. 🙁

    I still maintain I had more fun with D:U than with many other games I’ve purchased, but I can’t honestly say it met or even approached my expectations. Still, it’s certainly no Miner Wars, that’s for sure. 😉

    Why would anyone be afraid to criticize D:U to their faces? Do they have a history of violence or something?

    I certainly haven’t. The team, I believe, has a reputation for suppressing criticism, but it’s up to you whether you consider that criticism to be constructive or not. I don’t have enough experience on the D:U boards or chat to know for sure, but at least what little time I’ve spent there was mostly positive.

    That is, of course, not to diminish the thoughts of those that may not have had as positive an experience… 🙂

    #14529
    Blarney77Blarney77
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 18

    Matt T., I DO appreciate your opinion and your desire to keep it repsectable in here. It has been said these comments might be better brought up to the D:U guys in person.

    Frankly….. BEEN THERE… DONE THAT. Respectfully. The responses were sometimes respectful, sometimes not…. at all. Wingman took it very personally, especially in private email.
    That being said, I did voice my consternation, politely, but strongly, about the “Promised SP content” that has still never been included. I say PROMISED because it was a condition of my backing. It was also a factor for many others who are not happy. We are not happy because early on, in chats mostly, promises were made BY Wingman and others to many and not kept. So… therein lies most of my disillusionment.
    So yes, I HAVE made these comments TO the D:U team.

    As another mentioned here, and I think this is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT… If you are going to USE the DESCENT NAME, Then you MUST accept certain expectations!! It IS being called DESCENT: Underground. That name incorporates the very important qualities of the Descent games, mostly, Bot flying around trying to blow you up. Hostages needing rescue. Mine shafts twisting all the hell and gone… sometimes almost literally! And a reactor needing attention, ASAP, and removal. (Lets us not forget the escape) There is NONE of that in the D:U title. At all. (Except for a VERY VERY lame “VS. Bots” that seems a complete afterthought)

    OVERLOAD IS DESCENT! It is everything that embodied the thrill of the original games. (Though Sorry to say the long twisty tunnels and bizarre rooms are not so much) But the PLAY IS DESCENT! Matt is the one who deserves to have that name, and it’s frustrating as hell to see the guys using it are the ones “ABUSING” it. D:U is a 6DOF MOBA…. but that is ALL it is. If you use the name, you should not ignore WHAT that game is! And they ADVERTISE as part of the Descent universe! NOT as a separate stand alone. They use the name and all that people think of the older games to attract players. But the HEART of the Descent games IS NOT THERE! THAT is my problem with it. (Also it seems the graphics are kinda cheesy in many ways.. YES I brought that up with them too!)

    I’m sometimes too outspoken for my own good. But I have been told I’m much like the bulldog who will not give up the bone. MY teeth are in this one. I INVESTED in both games. I WANT to see them BOTH succeed. But D:U is a vast disappointment, and the attitude I have gotten from them in voicing that has NOT been good.

    MAT, Luke, All you Overload guys are stunning people everywhere. I have shown the gameplay online many times to others who are majorly blown away and can’t wait for the release. If you are the standard by which others are judged, you have set a very high bar. Keep up the awesome work. As someone with limited resources and now with a new medical issue (cancer) to go along with all the other crap, the funds I have wanted to add to my backing are just too damned tight. But i DO intend to up the ante and even get more to back you further. This is the NUMBER ONE game I look forward to. THANKS GUYS! You have made this old fart pretty damned happy and proud to be a backer of… however limited it might be from me.

    Cory “Blarney77” Callender
    Wichita Kansas
    Hopelessly Descent Addicted!! 😉

    #14530
    DarkwingDivaDarkwingDiva
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 29
    Replies: 346

    Perhaps I misstated my opinion, because I think we’re on the same page here, DW. Overload and Sol:C definitely control significantly better than D:U, although I might argue D:U controls no better or worse than a mouse than D1 – depending on your choice of “drone,” which I imagine largely determines the quality of your experience (I prefer the Typhoon, in case you were wondering).

    Ah, yeah I think we’re more or less on the same page. The only thing I’ll add is that even though D1 mouse control may not be much different than D:U (depending on the drone you’re flying), I’ve had an issue where my mouse input is jittery and inconsistent through a full turn (it’ll jump up and down abruptly when turning left and right). Others have the same issue. D1 mouse control is certainly not where Overload and Sol: C is, but it’s at least smoother.

    I still maintain I had more fun with D:U than with many other games I’ve purchased, but I can’t honestly say it met or even approached my expectations. Still, it’s certainly no Miner Wars, that’s for sure.

    Fair enough 🙂

    The responses were sometimes respectful, sometimes not…. at all. Wingman took it very personally, especially in private email.

    This has been my experience as well. He constantly complains about people not giving the team a fair chance, yet turns around and says the player base is wrong about what makes the game not fun, and when suggestions are made that he doesn’t agree with, he dismisses them and tells you not to mention it again (bring up hitboxes, see what happens). He even criticizes players for mentioning Overload as a “better” experience and says the (Overload) player base is conspiring to bring D:U down and that Revival needs to do more about it. He’s also downplays Overload itself, saying that it’s easy to make a “simple” game with only 1 ship to worry about, and it’s much harder to do what they are doing. I’ve tried to talk to him about all this too but he just yells at me, tells me my feedback isn’t worth anything because I stopped playing, etc. That’s what disillusioned me, not only is the game not fun imo, but the unprofessionalism I’ve seen from him really makes me appreciate what Revival does on a regular basis.

    #14531
    YoshimitsuYoshimitsu
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 57
    Replies: 421

    I was very active on the D:U forum for a long time, maybe a year and a half starting at their kickstarter. When they were the only option for modern 6DOF I played and had fun with their early access product, but the second another game appeared, Sol Contingency, D:U started to feel less like fun and more like a slog. A few months ago, a lot of their community tried what almost felt like an intervention to try and get them to fix the underlying problems that make their basic core combat not fun. Reading that conversation and experiencing the changes they made afterward made it obvious that they were deliberately ignoring the pages and pages of detailed constructive feedback from their best, most involved players (I am not one of the best). In the several builds they released after this discussion none of the suggestions were considered and the changes they did add made the game significantly worse.

    A number of players continued this discussion in the alpha forum after it began to feel like we were wasting our time with them. It was much in the same vein of detailed specifics of changes to make the game fun. We were told point blank that they aren’t interested in making the kind of game we want to play. They were downright mean to certain members (not to me) and stated outright that people who disagreed may as well stop posting. I even remember a post of Wingman’s where he said that they were interested in EA for exposure more than feedback. So I left their forum, stopped playing the game, and have had a low opinion of them ever since. At some point I fully intend to try D:U again and see if I was wrong so I haven’t given up completely, but at this point I’m extremely pessimistic. Maybe these things won’t be such a problem in their singleplayer, who knows.

    Overload on the other hand started out fun with the first teaser during Kickstarter and has only gotten better since. Revival have gone in the exact opposite direction from Descendant in that they started by getting the core gameplay to a state of excellence before adding features. This ensured that they had a really good base to build on. Are there still improvements that could be made? Sure there are but if they don’t happen and the gameplay stays the way it is then they’ve already got a winner! We’re just barely into the second year of open development with Overload and I’ve already played about 150 hours of the game, half of that since Early Access started. I wouldn’t do that if I weren’t enjoying the game. I also think it’s worth mentioning the staggering amount of progress that has been made in such a short time.

    Revival are amazing at listening to feedback and using what we say to make a better game. Here I feel like it’s worth my time to make comments and analyze the game because This team actually considers ideas other than their own. They don’t always make the decisions I would like but I never feel as if what I (or anybody) says is dismissed out of hand. Their level of humility is truly amazing, and they seem like people I’d like to work with. I don’t say any of this because they are the “CREATORS of DESCENT,” but because of how they have handled Overload’s development, and the way they interact with the community. Yes they have done great work on previous games but the praise I have for Revival is because of what they’re doing right now with Overload.

    This wouldn’t be complete though without one last nail in D:U’s coffin, and that nail is Sol Contingency. I mentioned earlier that D:U suddenly seemed less fun once I had SolC to compare it to. That’s a much more meaningful comparison because, like D:U’s current versions, SolC is multiplayer only. It may be small; only 3 maps, one ship (plus a re-skin), and 9 weapons, but SolC is the most fun I’ve ever had in a multiplayer game of any kind. Again, it’s down to getting the basics right, where D:U fails. Things like flight model and size interrelationships between players/weapons/world. I may be in the minority but I don’t think that Descent 1/2 are the pinnacle of 6Dof flight which is why I don’t complain that Overload feels quite different, but I’d go so far as to say that the flight in SolC is the best of any 6Dof game that I’ve ever played. Maybe I wish it had more content but what they’ve got is excellent and I’d love to play it more often with anybody who would like to join me 🙂

    #14532
    Dacien
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 8
    Replies: 106

    says the (Overload) player base is conspiring to bring D:U down and that Revival needs to do more about it.

    Wait is this real? That actually really annoys me. Revival has enough going on without having to worry about that. Holy mackerel.

    #14533
    D2DiscipleD2Disciple
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 81

    I’d love to play it more often with anybody who would like to join me

    <Offtopic> Same here! I’d love to have a Sol:C league or something, though it might be hard for me with an 8-week-old infant at home. PM me if you’d like to play, though, I might talk a few folks at PlanetDescent into it too. </Offtopic>

    #14534
    SiriusSirius
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 9
    Replies: 406

    OK. The main thing is that sniping at people behind their back leaves a bad taste in my mouth (although I have to remind myself not to do it too). That said, obviously most/all people here have had experiences – mostly worse than mine – to back up what they believe and at least the criticism is fair in that case.

    #14535
    TwoCablesTwoCables
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 118
    Replies: 1474

    Ok, I’ve had enough of this. This thread needs to die or be deleted. It never should’ve been posted in the first place, at least not like this. This is not representing the kind of community that I want to be a part of.

    Is anything good being accomplished by using this forum to complain in various ways about D:U and even the Descendent Studios team?

    Is anything good being accomplished by comparing D:U and the Descendent Studios team to Overload and the Revival Productions team, particularly to state opinions that D:U and the Descendent Studios team are both inferior to Overload and the Revival Productions team?

    Is anything being accomplished by bashing D:U and the Descendent Studios team either directly or by making comparisons?

    I think it’s worth looking at Matt’s post again:

    Everyone,

    Let’s be sure to keep everything polite in the forums. I have no problem with a good argument, but be respectful and don’t get personal.

    Also, this isn’t the place for negative comments about other projects. If you have constructive criticism about a competitor, I’m sure that team would be pleased to hear from you directly. Let’s keep this forum focused on criticizing Overload 🙂

    Thanks,

    – Matt

    In particular, I am focusing on this part:

    “Also, this isn’t the place for negative comments about other projects. If you have constructive criticism about a competitor, I’m sure that team would be pleased to hear from you directly. Let’s keep this forum focused on criticizing Overload

    Again, he said “Let’s keep this forum focused on criticizing Overload”. I think we have completely failed to respect him on this. This whole thread is a failure to respect him on this. So if we truly respect Matt and the rest of the team, then I think it would be best to just keep our opinions private about D:U and the Descendent Studios team (or maybe just hold private 1-on-1 chats with our friends). Instead – and from now on, let’s just state our opinions about Overload and/or Revival Productions (good or bad, just as Matt said) while leaving all comparisons to any other games and/or teams (or opinions about them) out of our posts. After all, this is Revival Productions’ forum for Overload. Even the very title of this thread shouldn’t even be what it is because it’s clearly intended to bash D:U and Descendent Studios. That’s just not right. Is that the kind of community we are? I hope not.

    Perhaps the worst part is, Matt’s post above is not the only post he and his team have made over the past year and a half to try to get us to stop making all these posts about D:U and the Descendent Studios team, yet it continues. Don’t get me wrong; I know WHY it continues. I totally get it because I feel the same way you all do about it (quite strongly, as a matter of fact), but that doesn’t mean I should use Revival Productions’ forum to voice those opinions and feelings. Right? I think it’s more than sufficient to just post my opinions and feedback on Overload and/or Revival Productions without making any comparisons to any other projects and their teams or without stating any opinions on them – especially negative ones.

    As Matt pointed out, if we have negative things to say about another game or their team, then they should be made on their forums – not here, because that’s not why they gave us this forum. So, I think Matt is trying to remind us that they didn’t make this forum so that we could bash other games and/or their teams. I think they don’t care about (or want to know) how we feel about D:U and Descendent Studios or how we feel Overload and Revival Productions compares to them. That’s negative and very competitive stuff, and I think they are trying to remain positive and peaceful. They have no feelings of competition with Descendent Studios whatsoever, and Descendent Studios has no feelings of competition toward Revival Productions whatsoever (just ask them both if you don’t believe me), so it’s rude and disrespectful of us to force it upon them – and I am personally sick and tired of seeing it! Neither team has ever had any intentions of competing with each other and they still don’t.

    This whole thread is literally an embarrassing disgrace to our nice community here and it represents us rather poorly because it seems its ACTUAL purpose is to bash D:U and the Descendent Studios team (realize that this thread can be seen by ANYONE on the internet, without a forum account). I mean good grief, even the tag is “D:U vs Overload”. Why can’t we instead just state how we feel about Overload and the Revival Productions team and just leave it at that? Isn’t that what Matt is respectfully asking of us?

    This doesn’t mean that I don’t understand what made this thread come into existence. That which made this thread come into existence is exactly how I felt when I discovered Overload after playing D:U for a while, and all I wanted to do was tell Revival Productions how much better I think they are! I have found though that they don’t care how they compare to other projects or teams. Instead, they are just focused on making the game that they have set out to make, and that’s that. There’s nothing more to it. They aren’t trying to be better than anyone else or anything like that. There’s no competition in their hearts toward any other team. They just exist and they are doing what they love doing.

    So, I propose that we all stop using this forum to talk about D:U and the Descendent Studios team altogether. This includes the “Other Games” forum on here. Let’s be a community that we can all be proud to admit that we are a part of. Right now, I’m not proud to admit that I’m a part of a community that is quick to bash D:U and the Descendent Studios team, regardless of how I feel about D:U (I don’t like it, in case you’re wondering). Being quick to bash D:U and the Descendent Studios team is very childish and I am tired of it. Am I the only one who wants this to end? Enough is enough. I think we’re just beating a dead horse now. Let’s move on already. Let’s stop posting in this thread. Let’s let it die. Let’s also stop saying negative things about D:U and the Descendent Studios team on this forum in general. I’m not asking us to try to come up with good things to say instead. I’m just saying that this has to stop. It’s not doing us any good at all.

    Prepare for Overload…

    #14536
    Dacien
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 8
    Replies: 106

    I just got an email notification with Blarney77 stating his piece about D:U and I was like “Oh yeah, I think D:U team is shady and make an inferior product, let me back up my boy Blarney here”.

    Turns out this is an old, OLD thread. I haven’t posted about D:U anywhere in almost a year and a half.

    Sorry for my part in opening an old wound.

    #14537
    TwoCablesTwoCables
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 118
    Replies: 1474

    Just in case it’s not seen in my gigantic post, this isn’t to say I don’t want to say all the same things (make the same negative statements and comparisons, etc)… I really do, but there are 2 problems with that:

    It represents this community poorly, and it doesn’t respect Revival Productions’ wishes for us to stop.

    I can’t stress it hard enough though that I feel the same way you all do about D:U and the team. That’s why I’m here and not there. So, I’m just hoping we can all be much more positive on here from now on if possible, to be much more like Revival Productions is.

    Prepare for Overload…

    #14538
    D2DiscipleD2Disciple
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 81

    TwoCables,

    You’re absolutely right in all your comments. I apologize for my part in this… I wanted to maintain civility and I also want others to understand that while I much prefer Overload, I have, nor have ever had, any ill will towards D:U or its developers or its fanbase. In fact, I would very much like to see them succeed. However, when the comparisons started happening, I shouldn’t have participated in them as I have.

    I too should have recognized that this was a necropost by the OP, and that this entire thread directly violates the request made by Matt earlier. The development team has been more than generous leaving it up until now; I too think it should end.

    #14540
    CHILLYBUSCHILLYBUS
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 61
    Replies: 173

    alrighty my dudes let’s call it a day

    #14542
    Mike Kulas
    Overload Team
    Topics: 24
    Replies: 186

    I’ve caught up with most of the posts in this thread. I agree that some of it went overly negative and it would be best not to make those kinds of posts. It’s very hard to finish a game and I’m sure the D:U team is working very hard at it.

    There are some positive things in this thread, too, so I’m not saying it’s all off base. I’d rather not delete the thread, so please keep it positive.

    #14543
    Hunter
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 69

    D:U is carving out their own fanbase. It’s not the Descent we wanted, but it’s the Descent we are getting. Most people will be unhappy with that and brush it off as a failed reboot. Others will be ‘meh’ and just get on with it. Some will be pleased with the direction it took and the final result (whatever that may be…) kind of like how Descent 3 gained its own unique following, completely separate from D1 and D2.

    Let’s just chalk this up as another take on Descent like TNG was a different take on Star Trek. Everyone hated it at first, but it really grew into an amazing show as the years went by. The same could be said for DS9, perhaps less so for Voyager or Enterprise… but that is my opinion – Both those shows carved out their own dedicated fanbases. I think Underground is just going to end up doing the same thing. And that is something we have to accept.

    And at the end of the day, we have Overload, which is the Descent sequel we all wanted and absolutely love. So cool your heads down, because we have a lot to chose from. A decade ago one could only dream of having a new 6DOF game, let alone as many as we do now.

    #14544
    Goznik
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 119

    I’m one of those that think that Voyager and Enterprise are the best.

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