The discussion has moved over to Discord

Home Forums Overload Development Trichording

RSS Feed
Viewing 10 posts - 76 through 85 (of 85 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #3871
    d3jaked3jake
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 118

    Ahh, this explains why I’d try to trichord to get out of a tight spot and I didn’t get the speed bonus I was expecting.

    #3873
    TwoCablesTwoCables
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 118
    Replies: 1474

    Interestingly, the new build, Build 5, has trichording in it. However, it’s only 10% faster than bichording. Bichording is 20% faster than normal speed while trichording is 30% faster than normal speed. I’m not seeing it or feeling it.

    Prepare for Overload…

    #3878
    1up1up
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 82

    We need to convince Luke to change the current 20% Bi and 30% Tri to the normal values that tueidj has stated in his post #3875 https://playoverload.com/forums/topic/new-playable-teaser-build-5-now-available/page/2/#post-3875

    Bichording should be 41% faster (sqrt(1.0 + 1.0) -1 = ~0.4142)
    Trichording should be 73% faster (sqrt(1.0 + 1.0 + 1.0) -1 = ~0.7321)

    Assuming each direction has equal thrust…

    This is so essential to me and I am sure for many other players too. It simply belongs to 6dof shooters … from the very first day when D1 Demo came out 22 years ago.

    #3907
    CDN_MerlinCDN_Merlin
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 15
    Replies: 243

    Check out his new post about this.

    #3908
    darthkarkidarthkarki
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 17
    Replies: 88

    Bichording should be 41% faster (sqrt(1.0 + 1.0) -1 = ~0.4142)
    Trichording should be 73% faster (sqrt(1.0 + 1.0 + 1.0) -1 = ~0.7321)

    That is absolutely stupid. Sorry, but this is not a flight sim, there is no reason why they need to stick with “mathematical correctness”. You absolutely should NOT be going almost twice the speed because you are flying at some ridiculous angle. Luke is absolutely right about this, it makes far more sense to have a more normalized speed. Sorry if you got used to that inadvertently being the case in a different game, but this is not that game, and it just does not make sense.

    #3928
    LotharBot
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 1
    Replies: 133

    this is not a flight sim, there is no reason why they need to stick with “mathematical correctness”

    No, there’s not. But there is reason to stick with “proven flight mechanics that many of your backers love”.

    Trichording is a proven mechanic precisely because of the tradeoff it presents. The lower the speed boost, the more you tilt things in favor of “just keep your nose pointed at your enemy”. That mechanic has been weighed on the balances and found to be lacking.

    MENE MENE TEKEL UPHARSIN

    #3932
    hypersonic
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 220

    To prevent “just keep your nose pointed at your enemy” just make the overall base speed faster, not just some chording directions.

    That mechanic has been weighed on the balances and found to be lacking.

    I don’t know of any 6DOF games where circle strafe speed is in the neighborhood of rotation speed, it’s usually quite a bit slower. It would be refreshing to see a game like that. Otherwise ya, you can just keep facing the opponent, like in NeonXSZ. Circle strafe speed is usually like half of rotation speed, forcing people to go in restricted directions (like trichording) to get themselves out of the enemy’s sights. Why not in many directions, and why not have directional aburns instead of just forward?

    I think flat levels such as Minerva were so popular because pitch speed was so dang slow, so you don’t have to worry about having to pitch much, you just stick with yawing for the most part. Rotation speeds should be balanced with circle strafe speeds.

    #3944
    LotharBot
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 1
    Replies: 133

    To prevent “just keep your nose pointed at your enemy” just make the overall base speed faster

    Which has its own significant balance issues. But it’s also not really a solution — you still *want* to keep your nose pointed at your enemy, you just might not be able to. Which is still a lot more dull than having to constantly decide whether or not you want to face your enemy at this exact moment because you’re trying to balance that concern with your speed and direction in other ways.

    I think flat levels such as Minerva were so popular because pitch speed was so dang slow

    Nah. Flat levels like Minerva were popular because people suck at thinking in 3D, and have a much easier time if they can imagine what the level looks like in a top-down sense.

    On the other hand, there have always been some beloved levels with significant vertical elements. The Manes 2-4, Kiln’s Fusion Farm, Total Chaos, June Bug, I Don’t Know, Jolt, Three Sisters, Octave Pro, and Zenith come to mind. There are some pilots who get into those vertical spaces and immediately “get it”, and others who get into those spaces and try to keep themselves oriented in what they think is the “upright” direction.

    This summer at the D20 LAN, I watched my son (5 and a half years old at the time) and another new player (in his 20s) both playing single player, and when they got to the blue key door in level 2, it was immediately obvious that my son had better 6dof instincts — he pointed his nose straight down the shaft, while the other guy pointed his nose a little down but tried to keep “upright” and kept backing out of the tunnel, flying back in, and trying to get close to the enemies while keeping his nose at about 45 degrees. That’s now one of my litmus tests for whether someone will like 6dof — stick them in D1 level 2 and just watch how they react to that section, whether they’re like “oh yeah, I can turn vertical, cool!” and embrace the vertical, or whether they really struggle with it.

    #3965
    hypersonic
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 220

    Perhaps rotation speed could be just slightly faster than say a medium radius circle strafing opponent forcing them to change strafe directions. I wrote more about my idea here https://playoverload.com/forums/topic/balancing-circle-strafe-speed-with-rotation-speed/ Trichording mechanics might be fun, but I believe that there are other mechanics that can be fun as well (perhaps both can coexist.) It would be nice to try new things that other 6DOF games haven’t yet explored.

    I suppose most players roll 90deg before turning into a vertical shaft to take advantage of the fast yaw speed. There’s also bi-chording rotations which is just slightly faster than yaw, about 1.85 sec/rev in Overload.

    Maybe the player trying to keep upright in the vertical shaft was trying to remain oriented. A 3D compass would be nice in 6DOF shooters so you never lose orientation, like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YnoQ1n9tBc The first fully textured first person game had a compass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpuTbxkaZ94&feature=youtu.be&t=4m10s .

    #4056
    sushicw
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 1
    Replies: 21

    I’ve mostly said my piece, I think, but I want to add one more thing. I really don’t want single player difficulty level to be balanced around trichording. Specifically, I shouldn’t be required to trichord in order to succeed on the highest levels. As long as I can move quickly enough through the maps and avoid homing stuff somehow without flying at goofy angles, that’s good enough for me.

    I’m pretty confident that Revival can find a way to do so that also keeps trichording fans happy.

Next Unread Topic:
Viewing 10 posts - 76 through 85 (of 85 total)

Forums are currently locked.


Previous Topic: Forum Options Next Topic: Microgravity, Zero G, Freefall, weightlessness and Null G