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  • #16256
    DiamondWolf
    Participant
    Topics: 15
    Replies: 57

    Private servers.

    From what I’ve heard, multiplayer will consist of being put on a random server with random people that happen to be online. But what if I wanna play against a few specific people from down the street without anyone else? It doesn’t do much good to prove who is better between SomeGuy13 and me if some random person from Sweden takes us both out repeatedly on the one match we actually get put together.

    #16264
    sfischersfischer
    Overload Team
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 105

    Disclaimer – we’re still getting MP up & running, and most things are not set in stone at this point.

    You will be able to do random matchmaking, and you’ll also be able to just match with ‘your group’ if desired.

    #16265
    KAHAKAHA
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 5
    Replies: 16

    Im quite sure that you, (if everything goes according to plan), will have an option to limit the number of players on a server. Maybe (not sure) over time, even host your own dedicaded server.

    Multiplayer beta will probably have limited options at first, but i know the Overload team is working hard to make MP a success.

    #16269
    birdseyebirdseye
    Participant
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 45

    Disclaimer – we’re still getting MP up & running, and most things are not set in stone at this point.

    You will be able to do random matchmaking, and you’ll also be able to just match with ‘your group’ if desired.

    Cool. So we can play a 1v1 or FFA with the players we want, and choose the level and settings?

    #16270
    maxxmaxx
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 15
    Replies: 34

    What I would like to see is an FFA with the players made up of the top ten of the Insane+ boards! I would hope that we will be able to allow anyone to view our Steam broadcasts. And it would be quite a melee to behold. Hoping someone in that group would allow us to view their game. Heck, I would like to watch any of their runs in CM as well, but I digress.

    #16271
    sfischersfischer
    Overload Team
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 105

    Again, don’t hold me to it, but that’s part of the plan.

    #16616
    Pilot
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 23

    The #4 section is also something for which I’ve raised my concerns already like a year ago. And like Yoshimitsu I’ve also been having the same thought in my mind:

    I’ve watched videos of mouse pilots flying and I keep thinking “how am I supposed to play against that?”

    A simple example from this is for example fighting against any charging bots like golems, shredders, reavers. After dodging their charge, with joystick it takes ages(compared to mouse) to turn and destroy the bot. This situation will ultimately be the same in MP, if the opponent manages to get behind you or if you try to get behind him. Then the mouse user will be in advantage to shoot you faster.

    I don’t remember how different controls worked in D3, but at least in D3 joystick players managed pretty well in MP. So like Yoshi, I’m kinda looking forward to see how I can manage against the top mousers. Though it would be nice if the turning speeds would be fair for different controls.

    #16617
    birdseyebirdseye
    Participant
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 45

    I don’t remember how different controls worked in D3, but at least in D3 joystick players managed pretty well in MP. So like Yoshi, I’m kinda looking forward to see how I can manage against the top mousers. Though it would be nice if the turning speeds would be fair for different controls.

    D1 & D2 had a turn rate limitation. Increase in game sens, windows sens, DPI, etc and all that does is ramp you to the max turning speed faster, but doesn’t increase your max turning speed.

    D3 added a mouselook option which is similar to Overload’s Mouse Limiting = None setting. Turn speed is as fast as you want basically. Most servers/hosts in D3 turned it off for MP. D3 was also filled with D1 & D2 players who felt “Mouselook” was for ground pounders. Well, nobody has been playing much Descent for 10+ years and even a lot of people who were Descent fans are now more used to ground pounder controls than traditional descent controls.

    I initially set all my leadboard high scores with Mouse Limiting = Very Strong, it was super fun to play in D1/D2/D3 style mouse feel (and clearly it did the job well enough to hold the Combined top spots). But I spent more time now with the Strong setting, and I’m considering “Normal”. Strong has increased my scores mainly because of dodging acrobatics. What you will likely also see in MP is players wiggling back and forth a lot — it’s kind of unfun to do, but it is extremely effective in avoiding being hit as robots have to retrack…so will humans.

    Personally I’d rather we were all at the “Very Strong” mouse limiting setting, but it looks like Overload is catering to lot of ground pounder/FPS fans (which makes sense… look at the success of Fortnite). I’ll be doing Strong and possibly Normal depending on how it goes. It will be funny to see a demo of me fighting as I wiggle all over the place looking like some glitchy psycho.

    The big question will be if turn rate limitation will be a setting controllable by the game host/starter.

    #16618
    luponixluponix
    Participant
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 24

    it would surpress the fun of MP if its not about how good you are but wether you fly with mouse or controller/joystick. A fixed turnrate with the same maximum for both seems fair
    I would also not only restrict the turnrate in MP but also in SP just to make sure that nobody gets used to a higher turnrate and then feels restricted in MP.
    The mouse vs joystick topic is a pretty heavy topic

    nobody has been playing much Descent for 10+ years

    you might be surprised how active some clans in europe and america still are
    there are even regular 20-30 members lan parties , everything else goes around
    a tool called vortex

    •[OOTS]•

    Prepare for Multiplayer

    #16621
    birdseyebirdseye
    Participant
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 45

    it would surpress the fun of MP if its not about how good you are but wether you fly with mouse or controller/joystick. A fixed turnrate with the same maximum for both seems fair

    I would also not only restrict the turnrate in MP but also in SP just to make sure that nobody gets used to a higher turnrate and then feels restricted in MP.
    The mouse vs joystick topic is a pretty heavy topic

    I think this is overstating the usefulness of the lack turn speed limitation. As I explained above, I was able to get #1 combined using Mouse Limiting on Very Strong which is similar to joystick I believe. Yes, I will be able to push my scores higher with a higher turn speed but it isn’t night and day like you are thinking.

    Here is the issue: Descent has never gotten as big as the ground pounding scene. Overload wants to be a successful commercial modern game, so I see why they are trying to rope in the ground pounders. As much as I like the Very Strong setting personally, I’m aware that casual players are more likely to enjoy & pickup the game on the Strong setting. You can turn really easily on that setting, so perhaps that could be a reasonable limitation. Very Strong creates a lot of situations that are much more tricky to deal with due to turn speed limitations.

    What I’m saying is that we want to have the game be a success, and catering to the crowd that is already a niche perhaps isn’t the best way to make a 6DoF game popular. The original creators of descent are involved in this game, and they have made some amazing stuff so part of me is putting faith in them to hit a home run since they have in the past and likely have thought about this issue for years.

    One thing I wonder about, is why Joystick/Controller players don’t have the same controls?

    you might be surprised how active some clans in europe and america still are
    there are even regular 20-30 members lan parties , everything else goes around
    a tool called vortex

    Heh, I actually do play a modded version of D1 called Retro almost daily and have done so for over a year and a half; I just mean for the majority of people who bought descent they haven’t continued playing.

    What is this Vortex tool you speak of? I’d enjoy catching a game with you guys sometime. Feel free to PM as well.

    #16622
    luponixluponix
    Participant
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 24

    yeah i might be overstating but thats because i kind of wish that Overload becomes sth like Descent and i fear the possibility that it might turn out as sth that i dont like

    Vortex download
    https://www.descentforum.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2269
    Vortex is a extended tracker + chat for D3 servers

    •[OOTS]•

    Prepare for Multiplayer

    #16624
    hurleybird
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 41

    I don’t remember how different controls worked in D3, but at least in D3 joystick players managed pretty well in MP. So like Yoshi, I’m kinda looking forward to see how I can manage against the top mousers. Though it would be nice if the turning speeds would be fair for different controls.

    D1 & D2 had a turn rate limitation. Increase in game sens, windows sens, DPI, etc and all that does is ramp you to the max turning speed faster, but doesn’t increase your max turning speed.

    D3 added a mouselook option which is similar to Overload’s Mouse Limiting = None setting. Turn speed is as fast as you want basically. Most servers/hosts in D3 turned it off for MP. D3 was also filled with D1 & D2 players who felt “Mouselook” was for ground pounders. Well, nobody has been playing much Descent for 10+ years and even a lot of people who were Descent fans are now more used to ground pounder controls than traditional descent controls.

    D3 had a server option that let hosts disable mouselook, and from what I can remember basically every server used it. With mouselook disabled, the mouse had the same constraints as a joystick, otherwise called “flightsim” mode iirc.

    Overload’s mouse handling is really nothing like D3’s mouselook setting. Even at mouse limiting = none, Overload has a very noticeable cap on look speed, albeit much higher than D1, D2, or D3 in “flightsim” mode. Overload also applies a significant amount of momentum to turning, so the ship will continue to rotate after you’ve stopped moving your mouse, or after you’ve centred your joystick.

    To be frank, D3’s mouselook felt kind of crap in practice, since the high amount of momentum applied to movement completely clashed against the complete lack of momentum for turning. It’s like the game didn’t know whether to be an FPS or a sim. Overload’s mouse control at mouse limiting = “none” feels better to me than any mouse control has in any other 6DOF by a significant margin.

    I’m not sure that joystick users will be at as much of a disadvantage as some people assume though. Putting the Jostick/KB Turn Speed setting to it’s maximum of +4 means that one can turn exactly as quickly as a mouse user playing at mouse limiting = none. That said, it might be difficult to use that setting accurately without a lot of practice and a very high quality, very long throw joystick. Gamepad users, probably need not apply.

    And then things get even more interesting when you throw aim assist into the equation. It might be better labelled “turn assist”, since it doesn’t make your shots more accurate as much as it massages your turning to face opponents. This could be a disadvantage in the scenario where you’d rather lead your target than face it, but combined with high turn speed it could end up being strong, especially for hitscan weapons.

    What I can remember from chat is that the devs don’t want to limit turn speed in multiplayer, which makes sense, and are also leaning in that direction for aim assist. But I think these are issues the community and devs can address together once we have some actual multiplayer games happening.

    #16626
    TerminalTerminal
    Participant
    Topics: 10
    Replies: 18

    To give the gamepad players a leg up the devs could explore joystick acceleration, where the faster you flick the joystick from say 0 to +/- 1 on an axis the faster the ship turns. The max turning speed scales with how quickly the max X or Y value is reached to allow fast 180 turns, as well as precise less urgent turns. I have yet to see joystick acceleration in practice and haven’t played any games that use it, but as far as I’m aware it’s a possibility.

    #16627
    Pilot
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 23

    I have to say that I’m not actually that concerned about the current situation that mouse users have a slight advantage compared to people using joystick/gamepad. And I wouldn’t go into forcing people who have gotten accustomed to use mouse the way it currently works to something less satisfying. Only reasonable way to do that would basically be the option for the game host to affect this on game creation as birdseye mentioned. Or to find out a way to improve the configuration options for joystick/gamepad instead. Though I myself would not probably never configure joystick to be as fast as mouse as I enjoy flying with a slower turn rate.

    Eventually if this is how people want mouse to work, then I’m fine with it as it most likely keeps people playing this game longer and probably makes it enjoyable for a wider audience. Thus making me enjoy the game longer as there are more people playing it.

    Anyways joystick players can get(at least currently) in top 10 in the leaderboards and I can at least say on my behalf that there is still a lot to improve for example in my flying. Of course there are/will be players playing a lot better than me with a joystick, so would not be suprised if someone would jump in the top 3 for example.

    #16628
    KAHAKAHA
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 5
    Replies: 16

    Beeing a joystick player myself, Iv given the mouse vs joystick control options some thoughts.
    What I want, is that Overload gets as many players in multiplayer as possible. So Overload’s succes, is the one most important thing for me.

    This means making it as easy as possible for new pilots to learn the game!! and most new players use mouse and they dont invest in a expensive joystick, just to play Overload.
    There may be a little room for some fine tuning of the controls BUT….,
    DO NOT make it an option for ServerOPs to limit mouse controls in any way.
    BTW. I think the joystick handling is near perfect as is… at least for me 😉

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