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This topic contains 20 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Yoshimitsu Yoshimitsu 13 Nov 2017 @ 5:52pm.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 21 total)
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  • #15323
    Yoshimitsu
    Yoshimitsu
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 57
    Replies: 421

    With build 83 I decided to start tracking a couple of stats for Challenge Mode over the course of my play. I’ve been recording the number of robots I kill per run and the damage that I receive from each bot. I’m hoping this will illustrate bots that are unbalanced and need tweaking.

    I plan to do this for each subsequent build if I can play enough and publish charts for each map once I have at least 25 runs in it. Eventually I’d love to see this done as a part of the game. It would be really good to have lifetime totals both for our own interest and to help improve the game’s balance. I’d love to see an item in the main menu where you could see your overall statistics including everything we get to see in the detailed breakdown post-match. It would also be cool to see a “heatmap” with our lifetime stats for each map. I feel like this could be very useful to help us learn from our patterns.

    There is one major problem with my stat collecting that I need to point out; The game doesn’t tell you how much damage you’ve received from super bots vs regular bots. Because of this I had to combine them in my graphs so any bot with a super variant has contaminated data. This skews Goblins and Wyverns very badly since their super variants are so much more dangerous than the regular ones. I hope that this will also be fixed in subsequent builds.

    #15324
    Yoshimitsu
    Yoshimitsu
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 57
    Replies: 421

    B83 Blizzard

    #15325
    Yoshimitsu
    Yoshimitsu
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 57
    Replies: 421

    B83 Foundry

    #15326
    Yoshimitsu
    Yoshimitsu
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 57
    Replies: 421

    B83 Hive

    #15327
    Yoshimitsu
    Yoshimitsu
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 57
    Replies: 421

    B83 Pipeline

    #15328
    Yoshimitsu
    Yoshimitsu
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 57
    Replies: 421

    B83 Roundabout

    #15329
    Yoshimitsu
    Yoshimitsu
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 57
    Replies: 421

    B83 Syrinx

    #15330

    Luke Schneider
    Overload Team
    Topics: 10
    Replies: 115

    Thanks for posting these, Yoshi! I’ve been doing some tuning of bot difficulty, but haven’t gotten to level 9 yet (where Guardian first appears). Ogre has been nerfed in quite a few ways while trying to keep his role (don’t let him get close). I will be looking at Hydra soon too, to slow him/her down a bit. Titan feels pretty good now (reduced his max burst size, but not much else has changed), and has been renamed to Triton (to avoid confusion with Titan the moon).

    Reaver will get looked at too, but Reaver/Guardian/(Unreleased bot) will be the toughest non-super bots.

    There’s another big change coming in the next build, but it generally only affects bots that are not crazy difficult.

    #15332

    Mike Kulas
    Overload Team
    Topics: 24
    Replies: 186

    Yeah, great to see all that, Yoshi!

    You’ll be happy to know that with the next drop, you can optionally paste the kills/damage/etc. data by robot and weapon in your clipboard. It’s tab delimited so easily pasted into a spreadsheet. And regular and supers are not combined.

    #15333
    Yoshimitsu
    Yoshimitsu
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 57
    Replies: 421

    That’s great news Mike! I wish I had started this process with drop 1 so that I could see the changes in difficulty from build to build but I only just thought of it recently. Will we need to paste our data after every run or at the end of a session? Will each data set be labeled with map/mode/difficulty? I’ve had to be really careful to stay organized because the detailed stats screen doesn’t say what map it’s from.

    More good news from Luke too! I’m delighted to know that Ogres are being dealt with. They’ve been a massive, game-ending irritation. On the other hand I’m definitely in support of balancing the bots for Story Mode. That’s the heart of the game and the progression of harder bots from level to level was one of the greatest parts of Descent 2. Hopefully the new Ogres will be more appropriate for level 2 now.

    I feel like balance in Challenge Mode would be best achieved through better spawn rates. Right now we get truly ridiculous numbers of Ogres on most maps. I’d be happy with them even on their current difficulty level if we encountered 50% fewer of them, and especially fewer at once.

    I’m excited to see the changes (and the new CM maps, I just hope that I can finish my stats for the last 3 maps before the new build.

    Thanks, and keep up the great work! 🙂

    #15334
    Yoshimitsu
    Yoshimitsu
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 57
    Replies: 421

    I just realized that to make data harvesting even easier it would be really good if our clipboard data set for each run included every robot and every weapon even if they are not spawned/used, just give those a value of zero. Having all stats in the same order and location every time would make it super simple to just plug them into Excel and have the charts update accurately.

    #15335
    Sirius
    Sirius
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 9
    Replies: 406

    Does Steam etc support collection of telemetry regarding this to determine whether certain robots’ difficulty levels are a Yoshimitsu-specific phenomenon (I just wanted to write that) or more broadly applicable?

    #15337

    Mike Kulas
    Overload Team
    Topics: 24
    Replies: 186

    Yes, Steam allows collection of certain data. We collect some data, but not to the point that we could have insight such as you describe. We might add it, though.

    #15338
    Yoshimitsu
    Yoshimitsu
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 57
    Replies: 421

    It would be very cool to have charts that displayed the combined total and averages from everyone. I’d be really curious to see how differently each of us experiences the relative bot difficulty. I expect that “Yoshimitsu-specific phenomenon” are real as are “Sirius-specific phenomenon,” and everyone else too. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if a lot of mousers who use higher turn speeds aren’t so bothered by Ogres on Foundry for example.

    I think I’ve mentioned this elsewhere but Halo: Reach, the one competitive multiplayer game I played, (which also had something similar to Challenge Mode) kept track of all your stats as a player They had a website where you could view your own personal history and compare it to others. I loved that feature and used it a lot, mostly for fun and curiosity. During EA though, I imagine such a system could actually provide very useful data to the developers in terms of intended difficulty vs. experienced difficulty.

    #15339
    Yoshimitsu
    Yoshimitsu
    Kickstarter Backer
    Topics: 57
    Replies: 421

    B83 Labyrinth

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